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    Proposed Control Fight Rules

    Shimiko Chinoike
    Shimiko Chinoike


    Posts : 2318
    Join date : 2017-09-21

    Proposed Control Fight Rules Empty Proposed Control Fight Rules

    Post by Shimiko Chinoike Wed Sep 29, 2021 6:51 am

    Hi Everyone! I have proposed the following change to the Control Fight Rules and to the Bijuu Rules more generally. This rule change is proposed for three reasons:

    1. They take a long time to complete. Its not easy to work up motivation roleplaying a giant monster that has no personality or abilities other than what's shown in canon which is usually just big Kaijuu stuff. Very very boring to play under most circumstances and so it generally a chore to post in.

    2. They often require a lot of combat experience for staff to play. Kaijuu are actually harder to fight with than standard characters so it probably takes more technical fighting skill to give a challenging battle than normal due to their size.

    3. It puts staff in the unfortunate and uncomfortable position position of potentially having to kill people's characters if they screw up or something. Ideally, none of us here would like to do that but it begs the question is it really a difficult entity fight if there is zero risk of death? Tough spot to put an admin in. We've seen people quit all the time due to their PC dying to another PC, I'd imagine they wouldn't be happy if their PC died to an NPC creature in a fight.

    4. 48-houring. We've amended this partially but the threat is still there. And it goes both ways. Not a great way for an entity fight to end.

    5. Now that the risk of actual death is very very low assume you put forth effort, we've adjusted a few things to compensate. A second failed attempt will lead to a much longer downtime.

    6. Seals now have exp costs. Otherwise everyone would just start with an S-Rank Seal which isn't really how we envisioned the system. Those with existing seals might have to pay 50% of the prices listed albeit they can't take on a debt if they can't afford to pay out of pocket or they can downgrade their seal to the appropriate level.

    Control
    Whenever a Jinchuuriki feels that they’ve reached a point in their journey that full manipulation of the Bijuu’s power is needed, they may challenge that Bijuu in combat. This battle will take place in the mind, with the battlefield set as whatever that specific Jinchuuriki’s mental scape is –it was a basement level factory for Naruto in canon, for example. During this battle, the Jinchuuriki will have access to none of the Bijuu’s power and, in most cases, will be fighting that Bijuu at full strength one-on-one. Those that possess the Sharingan or other Jinchuuriki can enter the mind to aid in the battle, as well as any who have implanted their chakra within the seal itself or possess a technique that permits entry, but only for a short while, as when Kushina aided Naruto. However, the true meaning of this battle is the drawing out of the Bijuu’s chakra and containing it within the host, a task that is left entirely to the Jinchuuriki. Bijuu of higher tails have denser levels of chakra that is both heavier and more toxic than lesser tails, though the disparity in actual amount is small. For every Tail that the Bijuu possesses, the Jinchuuriki will need to complete an extraction.

    Control Fight System
    The outcome of a Control fight is dictated by dice role system. This system allows the Jinchurikki to calculate their odds of victory based on both OOC factors meant to demonstrate the effort they've put into developing their Bijuu and the IC capabilities that they will use to accomplish their goal. The Control fight is broken up into three rounds with each consisting of a dice roll and resulting consequences. Please note that the survival modifiers from previous rounds stack.

    Round 1  
    0-60: Death. You have lost the Control fight and the Bijuu is about to kill you. Leave now or pay the ultimate price.
    61-70: Near Defeat. The Bijuu has gotten the better of you and you've been critically injured. However, you have decided to press on despite the enormous risk you face. Proceed to Round 2 with a -5 modifier.
    71-80: Stalemate. You've fought the demon to a draw and it has been forced to escalate its tactics to ensure its survival and independence. Proceed to Round 2.
    81-90: Partial Victory. You've got the monster on the run. The Bijuu is battered and bruised while you are mostly unscathed. You've even managed to draw out some of its chakra. Proceed to Round 2 with a +5 modifier.
    91-97: Near Victory. The Bijuu has been critically wounded and is now at a major disadvantage. You have succeeded in drawing out a a majority of its chakra and the battle looks as though it will be decided in your favor. Proceed to Round 2 with a +10 modifier.
    98-100: Flawless Victory. You've managed to defeat your Bijuu through a combination of skill and careful planning. Control achieved.

    Round 2
    0-80: Death. You have lost the Control fight and the Bijuu is about to kill you. Leave now or pay the ultimate price.
    81-90: Endgame. The match has been fought to a stalemate and both you and your opponent's reserves are dwindling. The contest has entered its final phase but only one of you can remain the victor. Proceed to Round 3.
    91-96: True Resolve. You slowly pull ahead in a battle of attrition. You've managed to draw out even more of the beast's chakra and your victory is likely but not assured. Proceed to Round 3 with a +20 modifier.
    96-100: Hard-Fought Victory. After a brutal campaign against your Bijuu, you have finally secured your destiny. Control achieved.

    Round 3
    0-90: Death. You have lost the Control fight and the Bijuu is about to kill you. Leave now or pay the ultimate price.
    91-100: Bittersweet. You have finally taken down your Bijuu but at tremendous personal cost. Control fight achieved but you'll need a physical/psychological recovery period before you're back to your normal self. A processing time of 1 month must pass before you can use the benefits of Control.

    Miscellaneous Modifiers

    These stack unless otherwise stated.

    Personality/Lore: Doing a comprehensive write-up of your Bijuu's history, personality, relationship with current host and trivia will demonstrate your investment in the entity beyond power. This nets you a +5 modifier.

    S-Class: If you are at S-Class you receive a +5 modifier.

    X-Class: If you are at X-Class you receive a +10 modifier. Does not stack with S-Class modifer.

    Party Members: Every party member A-Class and up grants a +1 modifier up to a maximum of +5

    Enhanced State: If you possess an Enhanced State Restricted that is maxed out experience-wise, you receive a +5 modifier.

    Restricted Technique: If you possess an Restricted Technique that is maxed out experience-wise (if applicable), you receive a +5 modifier.

    Exclusive Technique: If you possess an Exclusive Technique that is maxed out experience wise (if applicable), you receive a +1 modifier up to a maximum of +5. For the purpose of this modifier, a Restricted Technique that is also an exclusive does not count.

    Preparation Post: If you do an 8,000 word count training/preparation post you receive a +5 modifier. Note that this training can be psychological, social, or physical however the words must be your own even if you roleplay with others.

    Additional KKG: If you possess an additional KKG beyond what you started with, you receive a +3 modifier. This does not stack with Dual KKG if you have that as an Enhanced State.

    X-Rank Item: If you possess one or more X-Rank items, you receive a +2 modifier.

    Tail Count: Bijuu are mighty creatures and their difficulty increases with each tail they possess. Each tail that a Bijuu has will necessitate a counter of -1 modifier up to a maximum of -9

    Once all of the Bijuu’s chakra has been extracted and processed, the Jinchuuriki is now able to use it freely. Initial Jinchuuriki Mode and the Version forms no longer reduce Intelligence and Constitution, and the Jinchuuriki will now gain access to the Tailed Beast Telepathy technique. However, the primary benefit is that Bijuu abilities will now deteriorate the seal at a slower rate, allowing more usage of demon chakra before the seal is broken.

    It's important to note that the maximum amount of experience a Jinchuuriki can invest in their Bijuu without having gained control is 3000 experience points. After that, they are absolutely required to fight the Bijuu in their minds and achieve control before they can be able to invest any further points and gain more abilities.


    Control Fight Interruption Change
    -Every time the fight is interrupted the seal is deteriorates by 50 points. After the fight has been interrupted, the host must wait four weeks IRL before they can access Bijuu chakra again in any shape or form. If the fight is interrupted during the second attempt, then the waiting period increases to four months. The third is then reduced to four weeks and then alternates back to four months for the fourth and so on for future attempts. This also means they cannot initiate another fight for control until that timer is up. It is possible to bring other people with you to assist in a Bijuu fight either by custom or through the current rule allowing Jinchurikki to assist. Helpers can assist for a maximum of 7 posts before they are forced outside of the inner realm. If the helpers die during the course of the battle, their mind is erased and they die in the real world instantly.

    Seal Point System Change
    In order to become a Jinchuuriki in the first place, a character must have a Fuuinjutsu technique that is capable of sealing a Bijuu applied to the body and used in the presence of the Bijuu. Each technique describes its own sealing process, as they can be very similar or completely different, but all generally result in the Bijuu being entirely contained within the character's body. This Fuuinjutsu is then the only thing keeping the Bijuu locked within the host body, and is also what binds the Jinchuuriki's life to the Bijuu's. Obviously, this causes the Bijuu to make a point of breaking that seal to undo the link and regain freedom, usually at the cost of the Jinchuuriki's life.

    Breaking the seal is a long process that involves forcing demonic chakra through the seal and onto the host, steadily weakening the seal in the process, until it finally breaks. All Fuuinjutsu that contain Tailed Beasts are inherently linked to the Jinchuuriki's will, such that when the host is strong and of sound mind, there may well be no chakra leakage at all, but in cases when the Jinchuuriki is wounded or near death and that will falters, the Bijuu will be able to force its chakra out. This often occurs when the host is wounded and the chakra induces healing, or when the Jinchuuriki suffers from emotional trauma that might unleash one of the Jinchuuriki Forms. Of course, at any point, the host can mentally undo the seal and release the Bijuu that way. This will still kill the host, however.

    Each seal is given a point value based on its rank. When first obtaining your Bijuu either IC or through the Restricted Progression System, the amount of experience the Bijuu puts into seal determines its rank and thus its point value. These points represent the remaining life of the seal, and when they are depleted, the Jinchuuriki is killed and the Bijuu is released. The point values are as follows:
    E-Rank: 25; 250 Experience
    D-Rank: 50; 500 Experience
    C-Rank: 100; 1,000 Experience
    B-Rank: 150; 1,500 Experience
    A-Rank: 300; 3,000 Experience
    S-Rank: 500; 5,000 Experience

    You must have the experience on hand to afford the seal you want in the first instance. The only exception to this is the E-Rank Seal. An experience debt will be permitted for the purpose of allowing the person in question an E-Rank Seal.


    Using any Tailed Beast abilities mentioned on this page will reduce those points, so it is suggested that the highest ranking seal available be used and that the Jinchuuriki take great care in accessing any demonic power. The points lost for each post that an ability is used are listed below:
    Unique Ability: 1 [Elemental Ninjutsu Rank Reductions UAs Do Not Damage Seals If the User Has the Element Prior to Gaining the Bijuu]
    Chakra Access: 5
    Minor Healing: 10
    Major Healing: 20
    Initial Jinchuuriki Mode: 10
    Version One: 15
    Version Two: 25
    Tailed Beast Mode: 30
    Chakra Mode: 15

    Gaining Control over the Bijuu's chakra will allow the Jinchuuriki to utilize it in a more secure manner, though because the Bijuu does not wish to work alongside the Jinchuuriki, its chakra is still toxic to the seal. Once Control is gained, the above point reduction values are all reduced by 5.

    Once a Bond is formed, the Bijuu will no longer use its chakra to deteriorate the seal. For those not quite so progressed with their Tailed Beast, however, there is a way to reinforce the seal. Seals that contain Tailed Beasts can be learned by any that possess the Fuuinjutsu Skill, but when created, can only be as strong in Rank as the Tier of the creator's Intelligence. The same is true of reinforcement; one with the Fuuinjutsu Skill can reinforce a seal but only if one's Intelligence is equal to or higher than the Rank of the seal.

    A seal that is reinforced regains some of its power, thereby extending the life of the host while allowing for further use of the Bijuu's abilities. However, a seal cannot be made new, no matter how hard a Fuuinjutsu user may try. Every time a seal is reinforced, it is restored to exactly 25 points less than the previous maximum point value. So, if a B-Rank seal is reinforced, it will be brought back up to 125 points. If it's reinforced again, it'll be restored to 100 points, and so on until the seal cannot be reinforced any longer. Experience costs for reinforcements are 50% of the base price.

    Changes
    1. Added a dice roll system
    2. Failing a control fight for a second time will lead to a four month waiting period then back at 4 weeks alternating back and forth.
    3. Seals now cost experience as does reinforcement.


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    Valen Minamoto
    Valen Minamoto


    Posts : 878
    Join date : 2018-10-18
    Age : 31

    Character File
    Skills & Elements: Fire, Water, Kenjutsu, Ninjutsu
    Class: A
    Ryo:

    Proposed Control Fight Rules Empty Re: Proposed Control Fight Rules

    Post by Valen Minamoto Wed Sep 29, 2021 7:16 am

    Interesting concept, I do like it to a degree. It certainly streamlines the entire process but I do have thoughts and concerns.

    First, isn't the point of bijuu being so strong of a boost in general the reasoning for the risky control fight to begin with? If you reduce the risk, should one not also reduce the power?

    If the above statement is a 'no' then I feel as if entities as a whole should be removed from the S rank class up claim options. This is simply because with most of the risk being gone as you yourself put. The bijuu are overall a much stronger option. It essentially rewards those who farm experience without really focusing on story. (I know, funny coming from me right?) As they will simply auto claim the bijuu and get access to a ridiculously powerful restricted with much lower overall effort than someone who has actually really tried to earn it via writing a good and well written story. Enhanced States are quite strong enough for a free restricted claim at S class anyway.

    With that point said here's a couple of thoughts.

    1. 'Restricted Technique: If you possess an Restricted Technique that is maxed out experience-wise (if applicable), you receive a +5 modifier.' The renown system allows one to gain a second restricted technique slot and even allows for a claiming of one. Due to that fact I'm wondering if this modifier is stackable or if it's a +5 for any and all restricted techniques the user might have.

    2. The seal reinforcement experience cost, the person with the seal is the one who pays it, right? Not the sealer?

    3. What about a modifier based on how much experience you've invested into the bijuu prior to the fight? The experience investment shows that one has at least tried to IC progress in it's powers. As written one could become a Jinchuriki, slap through the control fight and potentially not invest into the thing prior at all. Something I feel would seem quite a bit rushed and cheeky. If the modifier is a 'meh' idea, what about an experience 'minimum' alongside that 3,000 maximum investment before the control fight?


    _________________
    Character Name: Valen Minamoto
    Spendable Experience: 0
    Total Experience: 6,160
    Renown: 9,250
    Ryo: 8,750,000
    Stats:
    • Strength: C
    • Constitution: B
    • Stamina: A+
    • Speed: A
    • Coordination: A
    • Intelligence: C
    • Perception: A


    Link to Character Updates: Here
    Link to Character Application: Outdated at this point
    Shimiko Chinoike
    Shimiko Chinoike


    Posts : 2318
    Join date : 2017-09-21

    Proposed Control Fight Rules Empty Re: Proposed Control Fight Rules

    Post by Shimiko Chinoike Wed Sep 29, 2021 7:39 am

    Valen Minamoto wrote:Interesting concept, I do like it to a degree. It certainly streamlines the entire process but I do have thoughts and concerns.

    First, isn't the point of bijuu being so strong of a boost in general the reasoning for the risky control fight to begin with? If you reduce the risk, should one not also reduce the power?

    If the above statement is a 'no' then I feel as if entities as a whole should be removed from the S rank class up claim options. This is simply because with most of the risk being gone as you yourself put. The bijuu are overall a much stronger option. It essentially rewards those who farm experience without really focusing on story. (I know, funny coming from me right?) As they will simply auto claim the bijuu and get access to a ridiculously powerful restricted with much lower overall effort than someone who has actually really tried to earn it via writing a good and well written story. Enhanced States are quite strong enough for a free restricted claim at S class anyway.

    You make a good point here but I'd like to point out that one of the reasons I'm fairly comfortable with the Restricted Progression System is that its kind of impossible to get to 6,000 EXP without developing a story. I mean we can all agree/disagree on what makes for a good story but the reason why the requirement is so high is that it forces people to do lots of threads over a long period of time. So I don't necessarily think "farming" exp is a problem given our current rules.

    I do think its "easier" to get Control but not in absolute sense. Assuming no modifiers you have a very low chance of succeeding. If you have all or most of the modifiers then you've probably built up your character after a good amount of time of hard work in which case I feel totally comfortable with you unlocking control because you've put in the effort.

    The risk of death was always a nebulous non-issue that caused stress. Its unlikely staff would kill a player in cold blood because they aren't a good combat RPer but want to develop their bijuu. It certainly could happen in theory but its not especially likely.


    1. 'Restricted Technique: If you possess an Restricted Technique that is maxed out experience-wise (if applicable), you receive a +5 modifier.' The renown system allows one to gain a second restricted technique slot and even allows for a claiming of one. Due to that fact I'm wondering if this modifier is stackable or if it's a +5 for any and all restricted techniques the user might have.

    I think the modifiers are generous enough. I'd say you only get credit for the +5 and not each Res Tech you have.


    2. The seal reinforcement experience cost, the person with the seal is the one who pays it, right? Not the sealer?

    Thinking of changing this up a bit to allow the cost to be paid between the sealer and the host. That way its not as harsh on newer folk who might be lucky enough to get a Bijuu.


    3. What about a modifier based on how much experience you've invested into the bijuu prior to the fight? The experience investment shows that one has at least tried to IC progress in it's powers. As written one could become a Jinchuriki, slap through the control fight and potentially not invest into the thing prior at all. Something I feel would seem quite a bit rushed and cheeky. If the modifier is a 'meh' idea, what about an experience 'minimum' alongside that 3,000 maximum investment before the control fight?

    Probably not a modifier but I agree a minimum investment is needed. I'll add that to the proposal.


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    Ryuko
    Ryuko
    Wanderer
    Wanderer


    Posts : 2154
    Join date : 2017-09-29

    Proposed Control Fight Rules Empty Re: Proposed Control Fight Rules

    Post by Ryuko Thu Sep 30, 2021 8:55 pm

    I find the idea of leaving the fate of my character up to random chance dice roll to be a terrible one.   Doing that for surgery is one thing since the outcome of that is out of the players hands to begin with.  

    They can put the player at a disadvantage at no fault of their own no matter how skilled a they are.  I don't think it could work unless the combat system was designed from the ground up around having dice involved like D&D.   It's the kind of thing you have to know your signing on for up front, not just tack onto a system years later

    Making seals cost Exp is a terrible idea.  Entities are already huge exp sinks as they are and don't need to be made more expensive  let alone more then doubled in most cases if someone opts for an S-class seal


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    Constitution: B
    Stamina: A-> A++ (Arch Angel's Tiara)
    Speed: B
    Coordination: A
    Intelligence: A
    Perception: B

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