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    Imbalance issues

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    Halcyon Yomi
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    Imbalance issues

    Post by Halcyon Yomi on Mon Feb 26, 2018 4:13 pm

    So, I've been looking at this and thought about it very much. This site which seems to pride itself on balance (I point at the tier limits, the raise limits, etc) does seem to blatantly allow imbalances and OPness in probably the most crucial of sections: bloodlines.

    I can surely understand that people would want the Uchiha, Senju, etc to resemble the manga/game/anime counterparts to their fullest, but in some cases such a thing simply isn't completely possible.

    Now currently, clans/bloodlines are extremely imbalanced compared to clanless people, while this should not exactly be the case. Clanless people chose to be unique and should be applauded for this choice rather than be belittled by imbalanced rules. Clanless people can only have one unique ability without a drawback/weakness, but clans can apparently have any number of abilities without any significant weakness to at the very least balance their advantages.

    So I propose that either we retro-actively rewrite the current bloodlines to choose 1 ability without drawback and give them weaknesses for all the others or allow clanless people to retroactively have up to 3 abilities without drawback and 3 with drawback. It is only fair that those without clan should feel more wanted, since in the end, the majority of players are more likely to desire a unique character built to their own vision than following the limited view of a clan or bloodline.


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    Re: Imbalance issues

    Post by The Founder on Mon Feb 26, 2018 4:45 pm

    The advantage of being without bloodline is not meant to put one on par with a bloodline user. It's a consistent aspect of the source material that those with a bloodline have a clear and distinct advantage over those without.

    This is why those without a bloodline have an easier time going through an implant, because to be fairly balanced, everyone would need a bloodline. However, those characters without a bloodline that still manage to compete with higher tier bloodline users have a distinct level of prestige across most Naruto RP sites and tend to be favorites among other players, as they are in the source material, because they have the skill or techniques to make up for the clear difference in power.

    There won't be a point where clanless characters will be on even ground with kekkei genkai. What we look to avoid are differences so vast that they can't be overcome, a problem common among Uchiha in particular. So as people progress and battle, we'll watch the clans as they're applied for clear signs of imbalance and seek to remedy those, most likely by nerfing OP clans.

    If a situation arises or if you can think of a likely scenario in which a clan is absurdly powerful, we'll take steps to balance them, even in comparison to clanless characters; we want a power gap, not a canyon.
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    Halcyon Yomi
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    Re: Imbalance issues

    Post by Halcyon Yomi on Mon Feb 26, 2018 4:56 pm

    I mean here that if we're going to make bloodlines for every damn character, that would be detrimental as well. the clanless idea avoids the clan page to be cluttered with one person clans. However, if we're going by 1-2 person clans shown in the anime/manga, etc that are on par with the major bloodlines:

    Kakashi Hatake, Might Guy, Bee, Kabuto, Orochimaru, Jiraiya, Tsunade, Sakura, etc

    These may be part of minor clans, but due to the minority of these clans they are better suited to be called clanless and besides the obvious protagonists and some major clans, they're equal to anyone shown in the manga or anime, if not better than them. So using the "bloodlines" are stronger argument is kind of moot here.

    I can agree with certain KKG having serious advantages, such is the world kishimoto wrote up and I can agree with that, but every KKG, no matter how powerful, has weaknesses. So I don't think this is me wanting to nerf clans, this is me wanting staff to remember that... clans have drawbacks in the manga/anime as well, but they have no weaknesses in here, change that plz.

    ex. Hyuga's actual lack of being able to learn many elements, Uchiha's drain when using sharingan being extremely high, etc


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    Re: Imbalance issues

    Post by The Founder on Mon Feb 26, 2018 8:50 pm

    We've taken into account the source material and balanced them accordingly. That means that the Sharingan has a drain, though it isn't major unless it's implanted. There are inconsistencies, but for the most part, it wasn't particularly taxing to keep active. The Byakugan also has a drain, though smaller. Hyuga are noted in the databooks to possess elements; Neji had three, in fact.

    We kept the clans as close to the source as possible. That may have led to some imbalance that we'll definitely be keeping an eye out for, but at the moment, nothing sticks out as particularly OP.

    A lot of clans offer advantages through elements or powerful abilities, rather than stats, so while a high level clanless character may be on level with Tsunade and capable of eliminating many advanced element users and such, that character will be at a distinct disadvantage against a bloodline with serious defense, like Shikotsumyaku or Koton, or one with high stats, like Nature. There won't always be a huge advantage in every situation for clans, as they have their specialties, so clanless characters will still be able to compete.

    If we find that clans are imbalanced, we'll certainly look into either nerfing their abilities or increasing their weaknesses/drawbacks. There isn't yet a need, however.
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    Halcyon Yomi
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    Re: Imbalance issues

    Post by Halcyon Yomi on Mon Feb 26, 2018 9:24 pm

    Allright, I'll go with that...

    though I must point out there are clans with either highly situational drawbacks that can't even be seen as drawbacks: Ex. Hozuki (which should have general raiton weakness, not as it stands there) and clans that just have not a single drawback at all (though they might be excused for this as their advantages are kind of generic.): ex. Hoshigake.

    sidenote: did Neji have 3 elements? why the heck didn't he use any xD He might've survived damn it Razz


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    Akame
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    Re: Imbalance issues

    Post by Akame on Mon Feb 26, 2018 10:13 pm

    The Hozuki do have a general raiton weakness. If they get hit with a raiton attack of any rank, they're paralyzed the post it hits regardless of constitution. That's a pretty massive drawback, and they're excluded from learning that element in any way, shape, and form too. I will admit that there are some clans that are inherently powerful with little weaknesses, such as the Byakugan and Wood Release, but these clans have their major abilities locked behind experience walls in most if not all cases. While not a drawback in and of itself, a clanless character that maxes their stats at 7,000 experience and can operate at full or close to full power could have a number of distinct advantages against a bloodline character who likely won't have maxed stats until 8,000 or 9,000 experience.

    In the case of Uchiha as the most notable example, that number could climb to be over 10,000 experience. Clanless characters also typically have more skill points to work with and have a wider range of scope with what those may be. Some clans force characters down specific builds to even be able to access their special stuff. It's all in how you look at it, really. I myself had one of, if not the absolute strongest, clanless characters on the previous site I was on. Having access to more skills as well as the ability to distribute them more freely than a bloodline character let me match many of those with a bloodline mano-a-mano. I had also reached close to my end game build quicker than those same bloodline characters, offering me a distinct advantage in upfront confrontations which is what most confrontations on a combat oriented site like this one turn into.


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    Masuyo Kaede
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    Re: Imbalance issues

    Post by Masuyo Kaede on Tue Feb 27, 2018 2:00 am

    I would say try out a clan, seeing as you have two available alt spots, so you can understand what pros and cons may come with them first hand. Izumi does bring a valid argument pointing out clans are really considered "gifts" as opposed to an otherwise vanilla character. However, as Tsuyo stated, clans must be worked on separated, and in some cases may force you down a certain build (for example: possessing scorch release will force you to have Wind and Fire release lining you up for a Ninjutsu-heavy build) as well as take away the liberty of an additional skill point. 3/5 of my characters are clanless, and that's because I prefer the flexibility and potential challenge when dealing with a character that has a clan. Masuyo for example has the ability to fight fairly even in all fields of combat. Tsubaki would otherwise be stuck with the close-quarters option, as that's what the Kaguya generally forces the character down. In that case, if I play my cards right on Masuyo, I could use that to my advantage.

    It all boils down to your play style. As it stands, no clans are particularly OP to the point where it would require a hard balance or that particular person from the clan will own the site. Certain perks may seem advantageous in your eyes, and in that case, go for the clan and try it out. Kaguya are typically one of my favorite clans because I find the bone pulse ability infinitely useful at remaining top dog in close quarters, so I register Kaguya characters. On the other hand, I'm not particularly a fan of the Uchiha, Hyuuga, Hozuki, or Hoshigaki, so I generally avoid making characters because I don't find their abilities useful in conjunction to their weakness. But again, that's my own opinion. It all boils down to what you prefer.


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    Re: Imbalance issues

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